Comments on: Wholesale (or is it Whoresale?) Pricing http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing Ball Python Breeder - Designer Morphs & Investment Quality Reptiles for Sale Tue, 15 May 2012 23:45:49 +0000 hourly 1 By: Brian Adams http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-292 Brian Adams Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:51:31 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-292 There are obviously many ways to look at profit margins in a business and selling goods, in this case animals. A few more obvious factors are the longer you have to keep an animal in "inventory" the smaller your gross prifit becomes and that is a continuously shrinking profit. Also, the longer the whole seller keeps this particular animal in his inventory, the same thing happens with his profit margins as well. Now, you also have to factor in your time and what your time is worth to you in an hourly figure, for example, if you figure your time is worth say..... $10 an hour, that amount is no longer a qualifying factor in this animals profit. A whole seller has to also figure in his time, food, and overhead if he doesn't sell this animal in a speedy fashion, He obviosuly has to make it worth his troubles as well, And although the more expensive animals they sell Im pretty positive keeps a healthy profit in their pockets, some of the less expensive animals they also deal with are, Im sure in some cases costing them money to keep, with housing, food and upkeeep, so, in actuality the profit margins of the more expensive higher profit margined animals help balance out the negative or the "red" (in retail words red being the negative amounts of retail) So, playing the devils advocate here, is he (the wholeseller) really doing us a favor by taking the "overstock" that we produce as to limit how much loss we really have to encounter....... just another thought to this already great blog. There are obviously many ways to look at profit margins in a business and selling goods, in this case animals. A few more obvious factors are the longer you have to keep an animal in “inventory” the smaller your gross prifit becomes and that is a continuously shrinking profit. Also, the longer the whole seller keeps this particular animal in his inventory, the same thing happens with his profit margins as well. Now, you also have to factor in your time and what your time is worth to you in an hourly figure, for example, if you figure your time is worth say….. $10 an hour, that amount is no longer a qualifying factor in this animals profit. A whole seller has to also figure in his time, food, and overhead if he doesn’t sell this animal in a speedy fashion, He obviosuly has to make it worth his troubles as well, And although the more expensive animals they sell Im pretty positive keeps a healthy profit in their pockets, some of the less expensive animals they also deal with are, Im sure in some cases costing them money to keep, with housing, food and upkeeep, so, in actuality the profit margins of the more expensive higher profit margined animals help balance out the negative
or the “red” (in retail words red being the negative amounts of retail) So, playing the devils advocate here, is he (the wholeseller) really doing us a favor by taking the “overstock” that we produce as to limit how much loss we really have to encounter……. just another thought to this already great blog.

]]> By: Andy (Pets @ Sunset) http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-287 Andy (Pets @ Sunset) Sat, 05 Jun 2010 17:28:29 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-287 I agree with you whole heartedly Colin. I am a retail manager in a hardware store by day and a reptile breeder by night. I set price margins and deal with customers ALL DAY LONG. I feel that there will always be a niche for the wholesaler out there, we Americans love our deals, but it is up to us breeders to stick togeher and hold the pricing we want on our animals. I also think more people should do there research before deciding that they want to be a breeder. We are living in a tough economy right now in the US, and a lot of people who bought their ball pythons (take for example the Piedbald) at $2000, bred them out expecting to make a quick return only to find that the market is full of people who want a 50/50 pied, but dont have the money for them. Now the realization comes in that "oh my god I have to feed, house, water, and keep this thing warm till I can sell it." Which then leads to them selling it for whatever they can get out of it. Please people if you want to do this for a living, you should do it for the love of the animals first. Maintain a day job to make ends meet and hold up the values on your hard work and your offspring. I agree with you whole heartedly Colin. I am a retail manager in a hardware store by day and a reptile breeder by night. I set price margins and deal with customers ALL DAY LONG. I feel that there will always be a niche for the wholesaler out there, we Americans love our deals, but it is up to us breeders to stick togeher and hold the pricing we want on our animals. I also think more people should do there research before deciding that they want to be a breeder. We are living in a tough economy right now in the US, and a lot of people who bought their ball pythons (take for example the Piedbald) at $2000, bred them out expecting to make a quick return only to find that the market is full of people who want a 50/50 pied, but dont have the money for them. Now the realization comes in that “oh my god I have to feed, house, water, and keep this thing warm till I can sell it.” Which then leads to them selling it for whatever they can get out of it. Please people if you want to do this for a living, you should do it for the love of the animals first. Maintain a day job to make ends meet and hold up the values on your hard work and your offspring.

]]> By: J-Nic http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-253 J-Nic Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:03:00 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-253 Interresting. But what do you think about flippers outside of USA. Or should I say, breeders who whosale to Canada or other countries ? I mean, it doesn't hurt the US market and the price stays the same. But for us out here, when you get to a show and you try to sell something made here, and you have to go against someone who imported many animals from the USA just before the show. For the buyer, there is no difference, but there is a big one to the breeders. I don't see this as a business but as a hobby and just like anyother hobby, you need to put money on the table to have fun in it. But like in any other hobby, you try to save as much as possible on what you like when it's possible. Have fun and breed right ! Interresting.

But what do you think about flippers outside of USA. Or should I say, breeders who whosale to Canada or other countries ?

I mean, it doesn’t hurt the US market and the price stays the same.
But for us out here, when you get to a show and you try to sell something made here, and you have to go against someone who imported many animals from the USA just before the show.
For the buyer, there is no difference, but there is a big one to the breeders.

I don’t see this as a business but as a hobby and just like anyother hobby, you need to put money on the table to have fun in it. But like in any other hobby, you try to save as much as possible on what you like when it’s possible. Have fun and breed right !

]]> By: Ball Python Pricing - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-239 Ball Python Pricing - CaptiveBred Reptile Forums, Reptile Classified, Forum Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:12:27 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-239 [...] I stumbled across an interesting post on ball python pricing, what are your views on this post: Whoresale Pricing | East Coast Reptile Breeders [...] I stumbled across an interesting post on ball python pricing, what are your views on this post: Whoresale Pricing | East Coast Reptile Breeders

]]> By: Paul Fisher (Pied Peddler) http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-236 Paul Fisher (Pied Peddler) Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:56:43 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-236 Thanks Colin. One additional point, though. As the market price for any item drops, but the cost of shipping, marketing, and maintaining increases or stays flat, the retailer will need to increase the mark-up on that item or begin losing money. Say buy an animal in a bulk purchase where that individual costs you $300. You invest $25 in maintenance and business expenses, then re-sell for $500. You made money. Now, you buy an animal for $30, still spend $25 on it and sell if for $50. You lost money. Same margin with respect to the cost of the animal but... There is more to margin than just the cost of the merchandise. We can not draw a line in the sand and say below 50% market price is an unacceptable. While it may be true for a $500 animal, that will not be the case as lower priced animals are considered... Thanks for the discussion Colin! Sincerely, Paul Fisher Pied Peddler Thanks Colin.
One additional point, though. As the market price for any item drops, but the cost of shipping, marketing, and maintaining increases or stays flat, the retailer will need to increase the mark-up on that item or begin losing money. Say buy an animal in a bulk purchase where that individual costs you $300. You invest $25 in maintenance and business expenses, then re-sell for $500. You made money. Now, you buy an animal for $30, still spend $25 on it and sell if for $50. You lost money. Same margin with respect to the cost of the animal but… There is more to margin than just the cost of the merchandise. We can not draw a line in the sand and say below 50% market price is an unacceptable. While it may be true for a $500 animal, that will not be the case as lower priced animals are considered… Thanks for the discussion Colin!
Sincerely,
Paul Fisher
Pied Peddler

]]> By: Colin Weaver http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-235 Colin Weaver Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:27:11 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-235 Paul, Thanks for your comments. A lot of breeders, larger ones in particular, will safely fall into the category of flipper. There are many reasons why but one of them is that they need to have stock year-round. Very few breeders, even the larger ones, produce enough animals to satisfy the demand. I have turned away several dozen people over the past two months who were looking for pieds, clowns and albinos. I sold every one I produced in 2009 and would absolutely buy them in quantity from another reputable breeder. Buying animals from other breeders and selling them as your production is not a source of shame for anybody. It's the way this business works. One of my main objectives in this particular post was to raise awareness and suggest that its OK to sell your production to another person (breeder, flipper, wholesaler, pet store, or whoever) as long as you don't give them too much margin to be excessively liberal with their pricing. Doing so only hurts the breeder in the long run. The flipper is going to make their percentage no matter what. I want to invoke a self-preservation reaction in the breeder. Flippers/Wholesalers have done a good job at distorting the perception of what is fair and reasonable for volume discounts. The reptile breeder is typically a snake rich, cash poor person and the flipper exploits this to gain a 50%+ discount. Unfortunately, precedent has long been set. If you go to your breeder with your production in 2010 and sell 10-lots of pieds for 20% off the going retail price he is likely to pass on the deal. The expectation of 50%+ is going to be tough to overcome. I fully support your business model. Retailing snakes is busy work. Tending to customers and their varying levels of experience requires patience and persistence. It is a lot easier to simply sell your entire production to a qualified breeder and let them handle the dirty work. It makes a lot of sense. You make a little less money in the long run but you don't have to worry (as much) about unhappy customers and you are free to get back to enjoying the animals. Paul, Thanks for your comments.
A lot of breeders, larger ones in particular, will safely fall into the category of flipper. There are many reasons why but one of them is that they need to have stock year-round. Very few breeders, even the larger ones, produce enough animals to satisfy the demand. I have turned away several dozen people over the past two months who were looking for pieds, clowns and albinos. I sold every one I produced in 2009 and would absolutely buy them in quantity from another reputable breeder. Buying animals from other breeders and selling them as your production is not a source of shame for anybody. It’s the way this business works.

One of my main objectives in this particular post was to raise awareness and suggest that its OK to sell your production to another person (breeder, flipper, wholesaler, pet store, or whoever) as long as you don’t give them too much margin to be excessively liberal with their pricing. Doing so only hurts the breeder in the long run. The flipper is going to make their percentage no matter what. I want to invoke a self-preservation reaction in the breeder.

Flippers/Wholesalers have done a good job at distorting the perception of what is fair and reasonable for volume discounts. The reptile breeder is typically a snake rich, cash poor person and the flipper exploits this to gain a 50%+ discount. Unfortunately, precedent has long been set. If you go to your breeder with your production in 2010 and sell 10-lots of pieds for 20% off the going retail price he is likely to pass on the deal. The expectation of 50%+ is going to be tough to overcome.

I fully support your business model. Retailing snakes is busy work. Tending to customers and their varying levels of experience requires patience and persistence. It is a lot easier to simply sell your entire production to a qualified breeder and let them handle the dirty work. It makes a lot of sense. You make a little less money in the long run but you don’t have to worry (as much) about unhappy customers and you are free to get back to enjoying the animals.

]]> By: Paul Fisher (Pied Peddler) http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-234 Paul Fisher (Pied Peddler) Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:00:59 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-234 I agree with what you are saying, but there is a segment of reptile breeders that are not considered...Mine. I have been breeding BP's since 2003, specifically pieds and pied combo's. I take great pleasure in working with these animals and I produce a good number of high quality animals every year. However, I do not particularly enjoy retail sales. I have to say all of my retail sales experiences have been positive and I have gained many friends in the process. I just happen to enjoy working with the animals more than all of the personalities out there. I have thus chosen to offer the majority of my stock in small lots to wholesale buyers. Now, I understand the disdain a proud breeder will have towards "Flippers". But from what I've seen, a good number of large breeders have realized that if you can't beat them, you can join them. I take great personal pride in knowing that some reputable reptile breeders are willing to sell my stock as their own. I offer fair package prices and turn down low-ballers that think I might be desperate. Obviously I can't share details publicly because of the damage that might be done to their reputation should a breeder become known as a "Flipper", but I'll bet you personally know a few that have adopted the practice. Again... I agree with you. But I don't want to expend the time and energy of selling retail and I don't want to compete with you or any other breeder on a retail level. So what should I do with the animals I produce? Sincerely, Paul Fisher Pied Peddler I agree with what you are saying, but there is a segment of reptile breeders that are not considered…Mine. I have been breeding BP’s since 2003, specifically pieds and pied combo’s. I take great pleasure in working with these animals and I produce a good number of high quality animals every year. However, I do not particularly enjoy retail sales. I have to say all of my retail sales experiences have been positive and I have gained many friends in the process. I just happen to enjoy working with the animals more than all of the personalities out there. I have thus chosen to offer the majority of my stock in small lots to wholesale buyers.
Now, I understand the disdain a proud breeder will have towards “Flippers”. But from what I’ve seen, a good number of large breeders have realized that if you can’t beat them, you can join them. I take great personal pride in knowing that some reputable reptile breeders are willing to sell my stock as their own. I offer fair package prices and turn down low-ballers that think I might be desperate. Obviously I can’t share details publicly because of the damage that might be done to their reputation should a breeder become known as a “Flipper”, but I’ll bet you personally know a few that have adopted the practice.
Again… I agree with you. But I don’t want to expend the time and energy of selling retail and I don’t want to compete with you or any other breeder on a retail level. So what should I do with the animals I produce?
Sincerely,
Paul Fisher
Pied Peddler

]]> By: Dennis McNamara http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-233 Dennis McNamara Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:40:52 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-233 It's very interesting to see your points of view. They make me think of how I do and have done business and what I can do to make it better. It’s very interesting to see your points of view. They make me think of how I do and have done business and what I can do to make it better.

]]> By: Jason Rossi http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2010/03/wholesale-or-is-it-whoresale-pricing/comment-page-1/#comment-232 Jason Rossi Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:10:30 +0000 http://ballpythonbreeder.com/?p=2053#comment-232 Lesson learned... Hold What Ya Got!!! Lesson learned… Hold What Ya Got!!!

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